Comments on Scottish Cyclocross: Scottish Cycling Cyclocross Championships - Podium...

Name and shame so we can all read their sniping co...

2011-12-08T09:34:33.658Z

Name and shame so we can all read their sniping comments

sad 2 see some folks sniping on their own club web...

2011-12-07T20:32:38.812Z

sad 2 see some folks sniping on their own club website...

is this offical club policy?

Results are up [http://www.scottishcyclocross.org....

2011-12-07T01:16:45.907Z

Results are up [http://www.scottishcyclocross.org.uk/2011/12/scottish-cyclocross-championships.html] and I have not had a chance to check the u12s so they'll have to wait a day or two [I need to get packed to go to Mull!].

A good discussuion on this thread - if anyone wants the view from the timing guys then buy me a beer in Tobermory ; )

- Chris

As stated above this is not a dig at Sundays event...

2011-12-07T01:02:00.322Z

As stated above this is not a dig at Sundays event, it was run in accordance with SC rules etc, really well organised, great course for kids and adults, bike wash :), well organised etc etc etc.
Regarding the structure, just the U12's and the youth/U12’s gender issue that has been debated also.

From a vets competitor perspective I think the series is brilliant, the Women and Juniors being split when numbers dictate is absolutely appropriate, if numbers allow then maybe a vet women category would also be appropriate, it may attract more female entries?

From an organisers perspective (PLEAN) I understand the frustrations but if you only get one complaint from 60 parents then I think your doing a good job as you’ll never keep everyone happy. The kids being subsidised is a BC rule, from all the parents I’ve spoke to I don’t think any one of them would grudge paying. I think just amending the kids course to match the numbers would be a better solution than making a dedicated kids race, the number of kids and adults would drop as a result for sure. Yep some do pack up and go home but there are still a reasonable number around the course for the vets, although this may well drop for the seniors race?

From a parent of competing children’s perspective I think the u12’s just need a little more focus. The U8’s, U10’s and U12’s all try as hard as everyone else that’s racing on the day but not all got their “moment of glory”, and the girls racing boys is archaic to be honest. I think the pivotal point is recognition and standardisation, hats off to any organisers who goes through the stress of organising an event, but if organisers think running an event is enough and the kids results and podiums are less important they are a million miles from understanding the kids perspective, the motivation for children to have their name read out (be it 10th or 1st) and be applauded for their efforts has a massive impact on them and keeps them wanting to come back for more, the next generation of crossers!!! The issue is the number of kids competing has increased dramatically and the percentage of girls within the number has also grown, the sport is growing in Scotland thanks to SCX and all the clubs who are prepared to organise events, the rules just need to move in line with the growth.

Its a very positive issue, being a relatively new crosser I can’t believe events used to have 20 people in total in the dark old days, like everything else it just needs to evolve, which it has done to date and I’m sure will continue to do so.

Righty. Can we keep this positive please? Reidy -...

2011-12-06T23:12:41.652Z

Righty. Can we keep this positive please?

Reidy - can you expand on what you mean by "the sport outgrowing the current structure"? Do you mean the U12 categories or overall?

Speaking as an organiser, I would say it is imposa...

2011-12-06T22:46:32.262Z

Speaking as an organiser, I would say it is imposable too squeeze any more events out of a 4hour window in the winter months than already happens. You are probably looking at having a dedicated days racing for U12s. then their lies a problem. £2 entry times 60 riders will get you hee haw. don't even think the chip guys will get out of bed for that. basically the U12s are subsidised by the entries of the older riders and the coffers of the promoting club. also I cant help but notice that once the U12s finish the vast majority of them pack up and leave. Dont see many giving the other racers a cheer. I am all for promoting grass roots, but when you knock your melt in all year, and the only complaint you receive is from a parent, that their U10 girl did not get 30 sec of fame on the day, it does not encourage folk too put on a U12.

Have you asked the kids what they'd like????? ...

2011-12-06T19:48:34.326Z

Have you asked the kids what they'd like????? I have three of varying age and ability, none can understand why they'd just burst a gut, tried just as hard as the older kids on the day but didn't get acknowledged, it needs to be inclusive but if you call it a RACE then its competitive by definition and the kids treat it accordingly.

Some parents will always be a nightmare but a consistent approach across all disciplines at all events would eliminate this, or at least they would get the same response from every event organiser. If you want the sport to thrive then grass roots races will assist in its success, but not unless there’s a consistent well balanced approach which is inclusive but also rewards success, have a look at BMX categories (no I’m not a BMX’r ), they put the other disciplines to shame.

As far I can see the issue is the sport has outgrown the current structure and change has not matched the growth of the kids attendance. I think SCX and the organising clubs have done a fantastic job again this year but the numbers of U12 kids has regularly been 20% of the total field, a significant number which possibly needs just a little more standardised approach by all organisers with clear direction from SCX, to be honest its fantastic that this debate is required. Ultimately it’s not a SCX issue it’s an SC & BC issue, something SC are acknowledging I believe. I think all the Scottish clubs interested in participating in CX along with SCX need to clarify what the kids races/ champs need to be for next year and work with SC & SCX to make the necessary changes.

Much like the parent at Meadowmill who took it upo...

2011-12-06T14:38:44.306Z

Much like the parent at Meadowmill who took it upon themselves to stop their child and another rider in the starting straight as they had passed through the finish line about half a minute before the leading rider crossed the line to win and then moaned the finishing order was wrong...

Thankfully the manual lap counting came into play & the results could be corrected even though they were technically DNF's

Have to agree with Dave Hamill, some parents are r...

2011-12-06T13:11:11.112Z

Have to agree with Dave Hamill, some parents are ruining it for their kids which is resulting in organisers and officials not wanting such events.

Thanks to everyone who gave up their time to organ...

2011-12-06T09:03:42.843Z

Thanks to everyone who gave up their time to organise another fantastic SCX event. I'm looking forward to next season already.

Simon Fairfull

From another perspective think about event organis...

2011-12-06T00:09:49.942Z

From another perspective think about event organisers who don't want to include kids racing because of the level of hassle they always get from parents.

I know of three this year.

No achievements are being ignored. The results abo...

2011-12-05T20:40:16.602Z

No achievements are being ignored. The results above are the podiums for the Championship categories. FULL results, including the usual girls & boys split of the U12 categories, will follow once they have been thoroughly checked. Please remember that U12 racing is intended to be a fun category to introduce kids to competitive cycling and we want to keep it that way.

The categories for the Scottish Champs have been in place for a number of years now with the last change being the introduction Veteran Male categories last year (passed at the 2009 SC AGM).

As I have mentioned on a number of occasions, SCX will review the 2010 once it is done and take any proposals for rule changes to Scottish Cycling for next year for discussion. Individuals and clubs are more than welcome to get in touch with SCX through the (underused) Feedback section or directly with Scottish Cycling through the normal channels.

Possibly not the forum for me to wade in here - bu...

2011-12-05T19:51:28.110Z

Possibly not the forum for me to wade in here - but I agree with everything Andrew says. As a girl I cycled and raced BMXs until the age of 12 when the lack of available competition and companionship meant I dropped the sport. I picked up a bike again aged 18 and have always cycled seriously, but non competitively since. (More years than I care to admit to here!)
I am now involved in a cycle club through my son and have agreed to become a female coach as we are seeing the girls come along to the club then drop out. On a similar vein I am involved in the Physical Activity targets as set by Scot Gov and the level of activity in teenage girls in Scotland is terrifyingly low. We need to do all we can to encourage girls to keep riding.
Sorry to digress from the forum topic but couldn’t help myself.
A BIG thank you to the organisers for a brilliant day. We must have seen 20+ riders exit via the bars at the stream which my sons loved.

a fair point... you can be sure that the pony club...

2011-12-05T19:10:39.897Z

a fair point... you can be sure that the pony club are not shy at handing out rosettes

Quote: why dont you contact SC and see about getti...

2011-12-05T16:22:16.695Z

Quote: why dont you contact SC and see about getting the rules changed?

Indeed - I will do, however I am sure this has come up for the last 2 years at the end of CX season feedback.

I also need a lawer to confirm if Scottish Cycling articles of association Part 8 Rules of Sport are saying that the "tecnical rules" have priority over the "code of ethics etc" or the other way round.....

I would like to publicly thank all the volunteers invloved in organising and running these competitions, they put in enormous amounts of work for which I am very grateful. It is disapointing that at the National Championships none of the Governing Body professional administrators picked up that the U12 girls achievements would not be celebrated; as per the spirit if not the letter of the BC equity policy. If I as a volunteer club committee member can be expected to be familiar with over 173 pages of BC GO Ride manual & policies I dont think it is unreasonable that Scottish Cycling are either.

From my experience these girls dont just ride bikes; they run, swim, do gymnastics, ride horses,do triathlons play musical instruments.... They will reach an age where school work increases and they have to look at what they are going to concentrate on. If cycling did not celebrate ther achievements when they were U12 they might just decide to give up cycling and put their time into an activity that does celebrate girls achievements.

Then Cycling Scotland can look at participation rates for teenage girls and wonder why there are not more of them......

And while you have the bit between your teeth get ...

2011-12-05T16:06:51.922Z

And while you have the bit between your teeth get on to BC who don't even recognise an U12 Championship never mind seperate events for U12 boys and girls

Andrew, why dont you contact SC and see about gett...

2011-12-05T15:18:22.731Z

Andrew, why dont you contact SC and see about getting the rules changed?

The Championships are run under Scottish Cycling t...

2011-12-05T14:03:51.860Z

The Championships are run under Scottish Cycling technical regulations which set out the categories that are recognised.

http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/zuvvi/media/articles/scottish_cycling/SC_Little_Blue_Book_2011_WEB.pdf

Quote: Note that there is only one Championship ti...

2011-12-05T13:42:06.046Z

Quote: Note that there is only one Championship title for the U12s and it is not split down by gender

How does that tie in with the British Cycling Sports Equity Policy ?
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/zuvvi/media/bc_files/go_ride/Criteria_22.pdf

or the Scottish Cycling equity action plan ?

http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/scotland/article/scst-scottish-cycling-Womens-Cycling

Cycle Sport for Women in Scotland

As part of our Equity Action Plan, Scottish Cycling is committed to making cycle sport more accessible and enjoyable for females of all ages.

We aim to make a big difference to the perception and experience that women have of bike racing in Scotland. In order to find out what changes are needed, Scottish Cycling has created a working group called Women into Racing, which is made up of female riders and staff members.

By encouraging more women to get involved in all aspects of cycling including; racing, volunteering and coaching, women will develop a stronger voice in the sport and this will lead to better facilities and opportunities for female riders.

Well done to all involved in putting on the Champs...

2011-12-05T12:04:57.463Z

Well done to all involved in putting on the Champs :) and to all competitors who competed on a very tuff day!

Andrew: Breakdown for u12 Girls are posted here......

2011-12-05T11:08:16.214Z

Andrew: Breakdown for u12 Girls are posted here... http://www.velouk.net/2011/12/04/results-podiums-for-the-scottish-cyclo-cross-championships/

Note that there is only one Championship title for the U12s and it is not split down by gender.

Full results for all races & sub classes will be posted up in the next day or two.

- Chris

Brilliant proper cross course. Many thanks to all ...

2011-12-05T10:19:18.568Z

Brilliant proper cross course. Many thanks to all concerned with the organisation. Great day out, much appreciated.

Looking forward to seeing the U12 Girls 1, 2 &...

2011-12-05T09:34:18.055Z

Looking forward to seeing the U12 Girls 1, 2 & 3 positions. I think it is important that we celebrate the girls achievements as well as the boys achievemnets.